Q&A: As Quebec imposes Level 5 French rules on English universities, how attainable is it?

McGill University is seen Friday, October 13, 2023 in Montreal. Quebec's decision to raise university tuition for out-of-province students is already weighing on high schoolers and their families.THE CANADIAN PRESS/Ryan Remiorz

There has been a lot of talk in recent days about Level 5 French-language proficiency after Quebec announced a new policy requirement for English universities.

They will now have to ensure 80 per cent of their students attain that intermediate level of French by the time they graduate, otherwise the schools could lose provincial funding.

The measure applies to McGill and Concordia universities, but in the case of Bishop's University, in Sherbrooke, Que., they won't face financial penalties if that target isn't met.

It's a controversial requirement that the post-secondary institutions say is unrealistic and will hurt their pocketbooks.

CJAD 800 host Elias Makos spoke to Taylor Ireland, president of Ateliers de Conversation Anglaise, a language school in Quebec City established in 1983, about the new measure and how attainable he thinks it is for the universities.

This article has been edited for clarity and length. Listen to the full interview by scrolling to the audio player below.

CJAD: So what do you think of the government's requirements? How attainable is it?

IRELAND: The Quebec government has 12 levels for their proficiencies in French, so you have four beginner levels, four at the intermediate level and four at the advanced level. So a level 5 is just at the start of intermediate. So it's on the government's recommendation to reach a level 5 over the span of four years. If we assume someone takes four years of undergrad, it is an attainable level.

CJAD: How much effort work would be required to reach level 5? Can it be attained by just spending four years and every day you go to a depanneur? What do you need?

IRELAND: Unfortunately, that won't be enough. And it's going to always depend on where the person starts. It's going to require several hundred hours of training so you might be looking at full-time classes for approximately four to five to six months, or, say, three hours of class a week over the course of multiple years. So it is still something that's going to require some effort.

• Explaining Quebec's new French requirement for out-of-province university students

And it's not like a first-year psychology class where you have 300 people in the auditorium. You're going to have to be in small groups to have the opportunity to have that production time to really have that opportunity to speak. It's still going to take some time and it's not something you're going to pick up by being in Montreal or being in the province of Quebec. It's going to require some effort on the part of the learners and on the part of the university.

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CJAD: Give us some examples of things that someone who has attained level 5 French can do in conversation? What are some of the ways that it would be assessed?

IRELAND: You're going to allow some mistakes to be made. Someone at level 5 is going to be able to give you a pretty good description of things that they like to do. Maybe where they're from, do they have brothers and sisters, what did they do yesterday, what are they doing today, what will you do tomorrow?

But you're not going to move into more complex topics. You're going to stick to very close-to-home, very personal conversations. They would be more comfortable in a one-on-one situation than, say, a group situation. So if they were just sitting across the dinner table from one person, that would be an OK environment for them for a quick lunch. But if they do a four-hour soirée in French with multiple people, that would be a much more arduous time for them.

CJAD: Do you think the government has set the bar too high?

IRELAND: When you look at it on a micro level for one individual learner to get to level 5 over five, four years, you say: Yeah, no problem. That's a very reachable goal.

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On a more macro level, for the university to do that, they're going to need some resources. They're going to have to dedicate some time and energy to that. And the learners themselves are also going to be having to add some extra time. So maybe they have to extend their university stay by another semester in order to reach those objectives, or they're going to have to spend more time in French. So on a micro level, no problem. Macro level, that's where the challenges really come into play.

CJAD: Let's talk about employment because I guess the government is thinking about trying to get people to stay here, embrace French, and then try and make a life here. If you reach level 5 French, what kind of jobs can you work at that level?

IRELAND: Level 5 French would, again, depend on what the tasks are, but you could probably work in any retail environment, you could even work in some office environment. One thing that a level 5 French would help you do is once you start working in French, you're going to start picking it up a lot faster. You're going to have that opportunity to actually experience that immersive experience, whereas if you start at level zero, you won't really get the time of day. Especially in a city like Montreal, that's one of the challenges — sometimes even the general population doesn't have the patience to help learners speak in French, they switch to English very quickly.

CJAD: If someone is coming from British Columbia or Ontario and they took French in high school — let's say they're in French immersion or they took a couple of courses in French while they're in high school and then they come to Quebec — what kind of level are they at?

IRELAND: Someone who maybe did only French immersion, they probably will exceed that level 5. If they come in and they've only taken French through high school, their comprehension level and their ability to read and write might be higher than a level 5. What they'll sometimes find the challenge is people won't necessarily say, "Would you like to have a cup of coffee?" They might be like, "Veux-tu un café?" and that'll be a little bit of an adjustment to get used to how people actually speak, versus what they find in their books. So if they've taken enough classes in French through their high school, they may come in at a level 2, level 3, but they'll be in a much better position than myself, when I moved to Quebec at essentially level zero from Saskatchewan.